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Deliverance
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Excelsior
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Joined: 12 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:42 pm    Post subject: Deliverance Reply with quote

To Mods: You're welcome to delete the old Deliverance threads here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and/or here. Or you're welcome to leave them there, as a part of TW's history or for reminiscing or for laughs or whatever. I'll leave that to your discretion.

This post marks the start of an experiment. I suppose the best way to announce this is that Deliverance is now officially a "bad guy" faction - with conditions, which follow after the next part. If you're interested in joining Deliverance, skip to the next post to find out what to expect if you join Deliverance.

-= THE REASONING =-

Basically, I looked at all the alliances and noticed that, other than keeping off each others' backs, Deli's alliances were not beneficial for either party. As many of you know by now, I've often cooperated with PGF members and occasionally the faction as a whole. I've had to keep it limited as PGF often fights with Deliverance, and supporting PGF too much would be counterproductive (since I'm supposed to be supporting Deliverance), but the fact remains that PGF and Deli sometimes work together off-planet. Why is Deli's "enemy" more helpful than most of its allies? If an ally provides less benefit than a rival/enemy, I figured it might be time to explore new options and maybe (though unlikely) revise how the rest of TW looks at alliances.

Also, there are no real PvP factions left in this game -- almost every faction is either concerned about what everyone else thinks, or they want to ally with or at least stay in the good graces of most factions stronger than them. Asylum is one of the very few exceptions, but it hasn't grown into a threat to be reckoned with (yet). So I began to wonder if a faction could be ruthless on-planet while still being a positive influence (or at least avoid being a negative influence) off-planet, and if the whole of TW was mature enough to try to accept such a theoretical faction.

Between the prevalence of relatively-useless alliances and the lack of a true major antagonist faction in the game, I decided I'd break off most of Deli's alliances and put Deli in that position.

From one perspective, the timing is wrong. Deliverance has enough trouble against PGF, and if this little sociopolitical experiment fails we'd be adding ERSA to our problems. While still somewhat formidable, Deliverance is currently a shadow of what it once was.

From another perspective, the timing is right. Since Deliverance IS relatively weak compared to its past self, the experiment will rely less on Deliverance's actions and more on everyone else's reactions. The current conditions will serve as a more accurate gauge of TW's open-mindedness and maturity as a whole.

Of course, I don't expect great chances of success, considering this is "dat dem intarweb thingamajig WTFOMFGROFL J00 H4XX0RZ" and what-not. But won't know if it succeeds until I try, right? Razz

If the experiment itself fails, even if Deli's also dominant on the planets at the same time, I'll likely start moving towards alliances again, especially with training factions. On the other hand, if the experiment itself succeeds, even if Deli can't maintain any real presence on the planets, I won't be looking to restart alliances.

-= TRAINING FACTIONS =-

We're no longer allying with training factions. The current exceptions are Illuminati of Freud and PGF_auXiliary, until I can discuss the matter with Kragel and Walterohdim, as there were official agreements and terms that went along with the alliance.

Coddling rookies isn't going to help them in the long run -- they'll learn the game slower and will be almost as unprepared for their first PvP at level 20+ as they would be at level 5 (the main difference being the possibility they MIGHT have PvP commands by then). On the other hand, wantonly killing rookies will simply drive players away from the game, which will eventually kill the game itself.

Part of my experiment is to try a compromise. Starting today, Deliverance members are required to replace or give compensation for any drag bases and Simple units they kill (mods optional but recommended) that happen to belong to a training faction's rookie.

Minor damage to mining bases belonging to training faction rookies will also require replacement or payment; replacement/payment for major damage or annhilation of a mining base will not, except in special circumstances, as I don't want to support a mindset in Deli or elsewhere that letting Deli kill a mining base is acceptable (that verges on experience-trading even moreso than replacing units).

Hadeas, Infernus and Hellion bases won't be replaced, except under special circumstances. I'm against hunting sensor nets, but I'll allow Deli members to do so -- except 100 cmd will be sent by me in addition to Simple units lost, if the player is forced to UD (either commander killed or not enough scouts to cover planet).

More details will be posted in a separate thread either today or tomorrow, but that's the general gist of it. In the meantime, if you're a rookie in a training faction and Deli kills any Simples of yours, make sure Deli replaces them. If you're NOT a rookie but in a training faction, make sure your rookies are aware of this.

If this works out, I may break alliances with IoF and PGF_X as well. But if I do, I'll have to keep in contact with Walterohdim to make sure his group is treated equally in this regard as the other training factions, as PGF_X is tied to PGF and some anti-PGF Deli members might take it out on PGF_X unfairly.

Of course, rookies from the default and training factions are welcome to ask me for assistance, both on- and off-planet, even if not allied with Deliverance. Though I'd be wary of asking anyone else in Deli with on-planet assistance, heh.

-= ELITE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA =-

Yes, that's the full name.

ERSA is a special case. I've had Deliverance first ally with them because I felt sorry for how I left the faction, especially when a few ERSA and RSA members followed me to Deliverance. My alliance proposal (and leaving enough Sha'Kahr for a full Hadeas base) was to try and show them I had no hard feelings, and I didn't want Deliverance attacking them while they recovered.

But the ERSA of old is not the same as the ERSA of today. Hardly any of the members of ERSA when I left are still there -- in fact, a few of them are currently in Deliverance. I don't feel that same obligation to ERSA that I once did.

As for that agreement with Dfenceking, here's the latter parts of it (the first part was the actual payments sent).
Quote:
4) all my faction members [edit note: Stealth Recon members] must have a invite sent to them. also i must have a invite that will never be delete EVER!

5) a rank must be set aside for me at all times named: SR former leader : it also must be a high rank with the other former leaders in deliv are at and some adim powers.

6) there need to me a unoffical allance between me and EVERY deliv member. (if i happen to get killed by one units will be provide back to me, goes the same for a hades base)

7) protection: this goes with unoffical allance thing if i need help please help. easy as that Very Happy

I take this to mean that if Dfenceking drops to defend his faction mates or a faction base against Deli, that's his declaration that the unofficial alliance would be over. BUT that isn't in the spirit of the agreement, so we'll try something else.

If Dfenceking drops to support his faction against Deli, either in defense or to attack, his losses won't be replaced for that specific incident. The exception would be any Deliverance attack on an ERSA HADEAS base, in which case both the buildings and any units Dfenceking personally drops will be either replaced or paid for. On the other hand, if Deli ever kills Dfenceking's stuff when he's by himself (beaconing on Hadeas, a base on Konu, wandering around a PvP planet, whatever), Deliverance will replace or pay for his losses.

EDIT NOTE: Though it should be obvious, due to the terms of the agreement, any damage to ERSA's Hadeas base by Deli would have to be paid for, whether Dfenceking drops to defend or not, and whether manned or unmanned. Adding this in case anyone thinks I meant Deli can attack the Hadeas base unless Dfenceking deploys; ERSA's Hadeas base is currently off-limits to Deli.

In addition, if ERSA sends an alliance proposal to me, I'll keep it in reserve in case ERSA finds itself in trouble with another faction outside Deliverance. That way, if any Deli members are willing and able to help ERSA, I'll activate the alliance to make it easier on them. The potential problem is that a faction leader could effectively end an attack simply by approving a pending alliance. However, I promise never to use it immediately before, during, or immediately after a fight between Deli and ERSA, even if Deli is losing a fight against ERSA (and I'll have to make it clear to Deliverance members not to try relying on or even asking me to use that tactic).

Though doubtless several view it as such, I'd like to reiterate that breaking the alliance isn't a declaration of war with ERSA.

This only applies while I'm still faction leader. Whoever becomes faction leader after me will have to figure out how they want to uphold the deal, up to and including trying to re-ally with ERSA. I think I'll remain Deliverance leader for a while, though — things promise to be chaotic enough already.

-= OTHER FACTIONS =-

As I mentioned already, Deliverance is still allied with IoF and PGF_X, but mostly because I haven't spoken with Kragel and Walterohdim yet. Depending on how things go between now and then, I plan to eventually break these alliances as well (with advance notice, of course). It may not happen, as it depends on those discussions.

Soul_01's accused me of breaking off the ERSA alliance simply because some Deli members asked me to. If this were so, though, the alliance with Phoenix Rising would also be broken. Currently, PR has been a helpful ally of Deli, both in fights against PGF and elsewhere. Though a few Deli members have complained about a few details here and there about PR, the big picture is that the Deli/PR alliance has been mutually beneficial for both factions.

... though if the experiment works out and I can somehow accomplish it without souring relations between Deli and PR too much, I intend to eventually break this alliance as well. If I can't pull that off, they'll remain an ally as long as I'm leader — they're one of the few alliances Deli has held that's proven to be truly valuable.

doogan of Unforgiven and SpaceGhost of Resurrected are former Deli members that left Deli without undue problems. I help them on occasion, and sometimes they help me (though not necessarily Deli) on occasion. An alliance with either isn't required, but for now I'm maintaining alliances with them.

Though Deliverance is allied with only 5 factions (at the moment), I and some other Deliverance members actively back a few other factions — including factions we've broken alliance with today. They'll continue to benefit from these ties to Deliverance, and I also intend to toss in my support where they don't have it already.

-= EXCELSIOR'S INVOLVEMENT WITHIN DELIVERANCE =-

For starters, I have no intention of using massive armies anymore. I first pulled together such an army to defend and latter support Deliverance members, for various reasons. But I dislike PvP (which is ironic, considering the path I'm taking Deli), and I've disliked using such a show of force so much that I've often felt physically sick in the past. I'll keep a force for base defense, but I don't intend to join Deli in base attacks any longer.

That should be one small relief to most factions Deli isn't allied with -- no more Mac Attack from me. Razz (reference to both Macunaima, as well as my usual online moniker of Mac in other games)

I still intend to deploy to train against bandits occasionally, and to support Deliverance members with command spam when I'm asked and if I'm available. And yes, I do run from PvP battles when I'm deployed and have no one and nothing to defend, even if I'm in an Advanced and I'm up against unPaids with Simples -- I dislike PvP that much.

On the other hand, I still intend to provide at least some support to friends in other factions, whether red or green. That's the way I've always played, though again I've had to limit help to factions that Deli's in the middle of battling to avoid being counterproductive.
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Last edited by Excelsior on Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Excelsior
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Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

… hmmm, on second thought, is Deliverance really recruiting? o.O

Deliverance is in the middle of becoming a faction with few to no alliances. So if you're into PvP, you're welcome to join. If you're not … well, you're welcome to join, too. Razz The faction as a whole isn't too picky about who joins or what they do. Just keep in mind that there's more potential danger (and more potential experience) in Deliverance than in most other factions.

There's really three basic requirements.

The first is that you're level 20+, though we make a few exceptions for special cases.

The second is that you usually get along with the TW community in general. Occasional ranting, flaming, and spamming is allowed, especially in Faction Chat, though you're definitely on your own if you get in trouble with the chat mods or forum mods.

The third is that you need to be honest with even enemy players, at least in terms of TW business and battles. If you tell someone you're not going to shoot them, don't shoot them without provocation. If you make a deal or trade with someone, honor your end of the deal or trade as best you can. Former liars, thieves, and saboteurs are welcome in Deli, especially if they're welcomed by no other faction; CURRENT liars, thieves, and saboteurs are NOT welcome within Deliverance, however. Fighting a little dirty is fine; fighting very dishonorably is not.

Listening to me and following my orders or requests is NOT required. Whether I'm leader or not, I try my best to support Deliverance members, sometimes even if I don't like what they do with that support. However, if your actions often cause problems for Deli and/or TW, there may be punishment.

Deliverance is largely a do-anything-you-want faction. Everyone has different standards of fun, and we try to let our members have the freedom to do what they want. Just remember that, though we don't have many rules and you can be as ruthless as you want on-planet, you need to be able to get along with the TW community. Or at least be able to avoid pissing us all off too often. Rolling Eyes

... oh, and as of this thread, Deliverance is now one year old! Very Happy I'm betting half the TW veterans are surprised it lasted this long, myself included, hah!
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Excelsior
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've handed temporary/emergency leadership over to Gino, due to real-life circumstances both expected and unexpected. I've left instructions with Deli and sent a copy of that letter to a few other faction leaders (including the PGF family). If Gino doesn't find someone to replace him as faction leader if/when I can resume activity again, I'll likely take up leadership of Deliverance once more if/when I can resume activity again.
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Gino
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I passed the mantle to FroZen. He is again leader of the faction.
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Drakenhof.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deliverance leadership is now in my hands for the time being so if theres a problem mail me.Current alliances will remain and any future ones will also for the time that im leading(I cant speak for who may takeover from me), of course any things like salvage theft or the such will put that alliance in question.

Now Deliverance is looking for a small number of new players to add to her ranks, if your interested mail me.

My ingame name is Rabies for those who don't know.
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FearME
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what's the deal with Triton Dynamics? And why did you break alliance with Knights Templar?
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Drakenhof.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didnt break the alliance with KT or form the one with TD.These were done before the change over.Im not interested in discussing the whys and hows on the forum either.
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akanives
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fearme i see no need for that to be posted here. td incase you hadnt noticed by its members is a branch off from wehre a few people in PR wanted a break. nothing to do with deli.

as for drakenhof being leader i congratulate him on that and i believe he will do a wonderful job at it.
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bob198906
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dang not allied to training factions O.O wat about smaller factions that can't defend themselves properly against a big faction like Deli????
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Drakenhof.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about small factions? Im not going to choke Deli with 50 alliances for the sake of some guy who started a faction that will be dead in a week anyway.

As for training factions i really think they are useless, new players are better off joining the main faction right from the start and learning from those players and learning to fit in with that team not level up with a bunch of new players and then be thrown in the deep end and expected to support themselves and faction and also not know how those players and the faction works as a team.
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xebo
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

late reply

but yes, rabies is now the leader of deliverance. ill be busy IRL so email him re any concerns on deliv.

u can still email me re concerns since im still part of the management. thanks =)
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Drakenhof.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deliverance leadership is back to Fr0zen, things are getting busy for myself so im going to be unable to be and effective leader (If i ever was one).

Ive mailed those factions that wished me to when i was going to switch back leadership, sorry if i forgot you.
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FearME
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um, DELI dropped a base on Hadeus tonight, and did'nt even drop a player, killed 10 KT LE's.... and when asked about it, gave a smart assed response... hrm.....

I think they're doing ok.
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akanives
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol so were not allowed to drop base?
and its out fault that you ran le after le after le into our base?
(as i dont think the base would drop on top of 10 le's on that one turn heh,
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qazswerty
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice one aka, nice one.
trying to find out what to do with my acc anyway
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