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New players and economy
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danielsan
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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:53 pm    Post subject: New players and economy Reply with quote

I have an idea or two to bounce around. Drop-Shock isn't the most friendly to new players. And we seem to have a bit of an income issue because of the lack of hordes of new paying players.

Partially that problem is caused by the way the Drop-Shock economy currently works. The only commodity necessary, after being payed (which costs nothing) is basically command. Command is used to generate ore/credits, and it is used to build, deploy etc.
Terrabucks can be used to purchase or haggle for command. But all in all, the entire economy hinges on command. And the only way to get command, is by waiting (or trading terrabucks for command).

The economy is not fluent, it is entirely static because of this. Command is the in, and out. And it is hard to get for new players as they can't compete on Konu and Esika when just showing up.

What I'd like to suggest, is to make the economy more balanced. This would decrease the value of command somewhat, making it easier for new players to get started without handouts. And create a different kind of turnover inside, and outside the game. (which is also a good thing to take into account).

E.g. the plan:
Command: Used for deploying, issueing commands. Payouts etc. on planets and per day stay the same. Reduce dropcost drastically for command.

Terrabucks: Used for building units/mods. Deploying to faction war planets, along with the command fee. As addendum, can be gained by trading FPS for terrabucks. potentially part of Khaibars idea to make a temporary bonus tree.

Ore: Needed for building, gained through using command to mine.

Credits: Obtainable from selling ore and command, or selling salvaged bandit units to 'market'. In this case the market would be a place where bandits pay nominal fees for units. (kinda like ore).

The resulting economy would revolve around acquiring command and ore. But it would take Terrabucks to advance quickly. New players can buy terrabucks to gain a foothold quickly, without constantly hinging on command in the early stages.

Faction activity would be required to make dropping possible in the long run (See FPS). The value of Terrabucks would with that take a flight, command would decrease in price. Credits itself have little point in the economy, but can be the demoninator, to make up for the trades worth less then a terrabuck.

By shifting the focus from a limited commodity as Command (limited by gains per day, and action). To the Terrabuck or payed commodity, would make for a quicker turnover in dollars as well. The payouts from Konu and mortum might have to be decreased again, if we were to implement a system like this. At the same time, new players can easier acquire more command and advance quickly without handouts.

Downside: New players could be up and running with an army in a week or two in a new model like this if they spend some dollars, on their own ability.
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RoseThorn
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually... currently it costs more to stay paid than the price of tbs. The price is only going to stay down for a little bit, then it is going to jump back up to 100:1 levels, because I cannot hold the market by myself.


~Rose
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danielsan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly, but when you change the economy, the pull on command is going to lessen, while the pull on TBS will increase. Making buying them more appealing, as it will net more.
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khaibar
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a serious supply-demand issue when it comes to tbs atm. Mortum helps but not much. Perhaps new sources can be added, example if u hold all 4 relics at horizon u get 2 tbs. Killing a shak unit gives u a tb, every 500 hadeas fps give 1 tb , wanted bandits give a tb on killing etc...

I am sure if people find ways to acquire tbs without the need to purchase from others, the rate would drop back to 1:50
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danielsan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're aware that when TBS rates go higher then command, that buying tbs is getting you more bang for your buck?

So technically, inflating TBS is a sound economic strategy for Drop-Shock.
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corclaork
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

before i get too deep into the economics of how and why our market is broken i would like first explain how its all expected to function and the realities of why its this way. (and i know it seems like im skirting the main argument but being uninformed about the environment as a whole makes my argument a lot harder to support so im fully explaining everything in case anyone doesnt understand it Smile )

the first thing you have to do when you look at it is figure out the way it is designed to work. while it maybe be broken in functionality with the current state of the game it still matters greatly if we want to understand and change the way frizz makes it work ( because after all he created it and can change it if he desires). as f currently the market is based on activity. there are more methods of introducing and removing cmd than any other resource. in an environment where people actively use the cmd it stays almost perfectly balanced at a point where its difficult to influence. this design, when looked at from a dev's perspective is perfect, not only does it balance out pay 2 win but it puts everyone that is willing to try on a level playing field.

now we have to look at the economics side of it. the main issue plaguing the system right now has its roots in the fundamental rule of economics: supply and demand. in short there is far far too much cmd floating around and no demand for it. this is caused for several reasons but mainly by low activity. as people continue to use cmd to stay paid the people with the tb gain massive piles of cmd and as this happens the value of that cmd goes down. (luckly we arn't in a real market and the people with the tb are graciously holding prices to barely golden levels)(golden levels are rates that make buying paid days worth more cmd than the cost of the tb) frizz's holding pattern is well warranted because intervention could ruin any resurgence in activity and income. the game is designed to be a downhill slope and not one where you continuously gain more than you had before.

and finally onto the suggestion at hand.
I think your majorly misjudging the issues that our new players are having. as of currently it has never been easier to gain resources. there is little to no attempts to take supply runs or attack konu. any stable game knows that first time users are not your target consumers they are unpredictable and have little to no forces that make them want to stay. so instead they pamper new players, give them a taste of the very best their game has to offer (even if breifly) so they get hooked. after that it pretty much handles itself and it works here too. while its easy to look at the market and think this is the cause but it isnt. in the early game a new player wont worry about the cost of the market.

right now if you want to build what do you need? the first two are obvious: cmd and ore. but quite often we forget about the need to also have a premium item (strux) in order to build not just some things but everything. so a change to also require tb (another premium resource) in order to just obtain the things needed to play the game seems destructive. so what can be done?

I do like the idea of being able to sell your bandit units back into the game for some creds. it creates a new revenue stream for new players while requiring no new methods.

another way to help new players might be to give the starting factions a larger group of shared strux (give them a taste of the good stuff). maybe even hold a poll to decide which to include.

or a few other suggestions like: increased ore from vehicle mining on taris/riona. or increased cmd from supply piles on the training planets. a new mission system that fast lanes people to building up resources, teaching them to build a mining base or find relics.

I see you are interested in helping the game and community and will willingly help you focus in. if im misinterpreting your thoughts feel free to point it out.

cor
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danielsan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cor,

Those that compete on Konu for command aren't in my book new players.

New players are those under level 50, with starting units, or maybe a few intermediates. They won't be deploying/ravaging Konu. And if they were, someone would graciously take their relics from them. There's a ton of reason why they leave. One of them is having a 100 command in total, and haveing to do everything with it.

They are new, don't know anybody. And generally don't go around asking for stuff. Their command is spend on everything and they cannot gain it like the intermediate and higher levels do.

Once they reach Konu, they usually have reached a much higher level and generally are payed. Not so much new player anymore.

That the prices are being kept artificially low, is a way of the playerbase mending the economic problem, it still exists. I'm not saying my suggestion is the be-all-end-all, it's just that, a suggestion.

Command used to be very pricey, because of people maintaining large armies. If you get more players, command prices will skyrocket in the current setup. Which quickly devaluates TBS, making it hard for newer players to get in the game. Granted, not much of an issue right now, but it will be if we manage to get a bigger influx of people.

As for strux, well nowdays the strux market pretty much died because a few faction have all the strux already. Trade isn't necessary anymore. It wasn't a bad idea to make strux buyable, but with a declining playerbase that has it all, it won't pay for anyting in dollars.
=> Hence my suggestion to charge TBS for building instead of command.

And as for making training planets more interesting=> New players have a few units. Having 1 minute turns with 3-4 units is boring after a few deployments. We suggested to Khaibar to lower the turn duration on taris/riona to 30 seconds, and/or increasing their army size a bit with AI. So their deployment stays hectic. As well as bandits spawning more often.
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corclaork
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you dan for reminding me why i dont spend my time explaining things anymore.

cor
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danielsan
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

corclaork wrote:
thank you dan for reminding me why i dont spend my time explaining things anymore.

cor


You know, you're entirely right. And since you're on the council, that means we'll have a ton of new players by the time your term is up right? Since you know how to fix it n all. I'll just shut up and wait.
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corclaork
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or better yet why not stop thinking about how it used to be and acctually look at the way it is now? maybe talk to a new player or look at the market and see that there is a huge surplus of cmd, indicating that cmd is plentiful. or better yet watch what happens the first time a new player talks in all chat and see that everyone sends them mountains of stuff? but no im miles off... we need to change the entire system so that building requires only tb and ore. that will fix it all! and hay noone is buying strux so remove the strux market too Rolling Eyes . please if your going to talk at least put a little effort into making it look like you read into the things your talking about... i spent the time to try and fully explain stuff but you didnt read it so i see no reason to try and help further develop your half baked ideas. after all you jsut came back and have all the answers and i dont know anything.

cor
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RoseThorn
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't think new players are struggling with resources... I've been giving a few k cmd and 50+k ore to any new players that I see

~Rose
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khaibar
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New players find the game slow. They have like 5 speed units on taris and find a new bandit (maybe) every other 3 minutes. We need to make the game faster for them. Like when they drop they get 10 AI les or perhaps give their units 100% chance of spawn (I have the effect in mind and I've made post about it, waiting till the thing or two I made get in to make that. No sense in piling up un-added updates).

As for the whole resource thing, like Rose said if a newbie lost his units I am sure a random person (even if red to the newbie's faction) would sent some units.
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Cruxader
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many of the game mechanics are fundamentally backwards. I've harped on this before.

http://forum.mobrulestudios.com/viewtopic.php?t=14721&highlight=
http://forum.mobrulestudios.com/viewtopic.php?t=14726&highlight=

New players get turned off because of the (initial) slow gameplay and the fact that it's so difficult to get established. Much of that has to do with the fact that simple and intermediate units, and in particular mod CE modifiers, make anything but Advanced units and mods pretty much worthless.
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Frageran
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cruxader wrote:
Much of that has to do with the fact that simple and intermediate units, and in particular mod CE modifiers, make anything but Advanced units and mods pretty much worthless.


You mean II'd Elite Units... You bring up a point about this game I've always wondered about:

Why is it more expensive to use less cheaper, effective beginner units than it is to use expensive, advanced units?
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Levi_01
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khaibar wrote:
New players find the game slow. They have like 5 speed units on taris and find a new bandit (maybe) every other 3 minutes. We need to make the game faster for them. Like when they drop they get 10 AI les or perhaps give their units 100% chance of spawn (I have the effect in mind and I've made post about it, waiting till the thing or two I made get in to make that. No sense in piling up un-added updates).


What did I just read? PLEASE MAKE THIS INTO A REALITY!!! Also please include baby Sha'ks on training planets. This would challenge new players :P

If you make this happen, I will kiss you in real life Khai <3
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