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Konu Relic Fix
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xyzc2
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Konu Relic Fix Reply with quote

So why exactly is it a bad idea to give relics some kind of initial capture bonus, or a turn-based bonus as well as an end-bonus?

Nodes have a similar payout and it works fine, but spending an hour to find all 4 relics just to get dropped on seems a bit unbalanced.
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xyzc2
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Add a 1-time teleport to relic activation per relic or something, or have it like a dropship pad.
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yinuss
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something like a 50cmd first-capture bonus sounds fair to me
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wannabe121
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yinuss wrote:
Something like a 50cmd first-capture bonus sounds fair to me


Seconded. The only reason at large against an initial payout is that some players will go for the reduced payout if it is a guaranteed payout. Payout/turn is something I'm a little more worried about, since it removes the incentive to steal relics at the end of a cycle for a large payout. (Maybe payout/turn to whoever owns the relic that turn, coupled with a bonus for holding the relic at horizon to encourage defense?)
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Dogg1000 wrote:
olla wrote:
... Much better than nukes, that's too North Korean IMHO.
If these nukes are north korean, implement them anyway. They wont get 3 squares before tripping on a rock and turning into salvage.
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Frageran
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Support!
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xyzc2
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Payout/turn is something I'm a little more worried about, since it removes the incentive to steal relics at the end of a cycle for a large payout.


The thing is stealing relics at the end of a cycle is the issue. It would provide more incentive to steal the relic at the beginning of the cycle when it's first found, and reward the finder.
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wannabe121
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xyzc2 wrote:
Quote:
Payout/turn is something I'm a little more worried about, since it removes the incentive to steal relics at the end of a cycle for a large payout.


The thing is stealing relics at the end of a cycle is the issue. It would provide more incentive to steal the relic at the beginning of the cycle when it's first found, and reward the finder.


If relics are too difficult to defend, then we should push for them to act like Nodes that allow for a small base (10-20 bldgs). You reward the person who found it at the beginning of the cycle, and deter late-cycle theft simultaneously due to the command cost in dropping to take it. Simply put, there is no reward for whoever found the relic using Payout/Turn if the relics are stolen at the beginning of the cycle. You pay 3 to cap, get ~3 per turn; want to try and fight the bloke who dropped an army and is intent on taking and keeping those relics you found on 30-90 command? Be my guest.

If you want an upfront reward for the original finder, have the game pay them a "Finder's Fee" on capture. Not equal to holding the relic for the cycle, but enough for you to redrop and defend that end-cycle payout if you want to.

Or, another suggestion to meet the ends you suggested: Why not have Konu act like Esika? You steal it, you reset the payout timer. No more late-game theft, no free defense, and any relic hunters/robbers will only be lurking about the early-mid cycle (unless they want to be pretentious and just deny payout).
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Dogg1000 wrote:
olla wrote:
... Much better than nukes, that's too North Korean IMHO.
If these nukes are north korean, implement them anyway. They wont get 3 squares before tripping on a rock and turning into salvage.
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xyzc2
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually maybe something that could help is have all the relics act like Dropship pads and allow deployment to the relic.
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phrank
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could make it every 5 turns you hold it you can drop a building to defend. Now the only issue is drop cost for the building?
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Wakka
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://forum.mobrulestudios.com/viewtopic.php?t=15470

Jesus christ guys, if you want the council to do something how about providing some feedback.

QQ over.
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wannabe121
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wakka wrote:
http://forum.mobrulestudios.com/viewtopic.php?t=15470

Jesus christ guys, if you want the council to do something how about providing some feedback.

QQ over.


I wasn't aware all deliberation was supposed to take place on a Council thread. But thank you for the link to the official ticket.

Back to the matter at-hand, we've got a few possible fixes thus far: which ones do we want to do further deliberations on?

1) 1/cycle "Teleport to Relic" Acti on the Relic upon capture.
2) Relics function as Dropship Pads.
3) Relics give an instant fixed payout to the first person who captures them.
4) Relics function as small Nodes with a building cap.
5) Relics payout per turn instead of at the end of the cycle.
6) Konu acts like Esika for the purposes of Relic payout (reset the timer on capture).
7) Relics function as Nodes with a fixed rate of building deployment.

As always, we can do a composite of suggestions. I'm simply curious which ones everyone would be comfortable with taking out of the initial running.
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Dogg1000 wrote:
olla wrote:
... Much better than nukes, that's too North Korean IMHO.
If these nukes are north korean, implement them anyway. They wont get 3 squares before tripping on a rock and turning into salvage.
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xyzc2
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the teleport to relic.
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Wakka
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wannabe121 wrote:
Wakka wrote:
http://forum.mobrulestudios.com/viewtopic.php?t=15470

Jesus christ guys, if you want the council to do something how about providing some feedback.

QQ over.


I wasn't aware all deliberation was supposed to take place on a Council thread. But thank you for the link to the official ticket.

Back to the matter at-hand, we've got a few possible fixes thus far: which ones do we want to do further deliberations on?

1) 1/cycle "Teleport to Relic" Acti on the Relic upon capture.
2) Relics function as Dropship Pads.
3) Relics give an instant fixed payout to the first person who captures them.
4) Relics function as small Nodes with a building cap.
5) Relics payout per turn instead of at the end of the cycle.
6) Konu acts like Esika for the purposes of Relic payout (reset the timer on capture).
7) Relics function as Nodes with a fixed rate of building deployment.

As always, we can do a composite of suggestions. I'm simply curious which ones everyone would be comfortable with taking out of the initial running.


Forgive me but, you're a complete fucking idiot.

I never said THIS IS A COUNCIL THREAD YOU MUST DELIBERATE HERE. I said, if you want us to do something, how about actually checking the fucking forum and providing feedback to suggestions when they are made instead of ignoring them countless times (I've posted the need for relic changes BEFORE that thread also). Even if this was a non-council member, I'd tell you to do the same fucking thing. If this proved popular, it could have been coded weeks ago and implemented. Instead, we keep making individual threads that receive little feedback, and no general consensus on what to do. This is the PLAYER'S COUNCIL. We act based on what you guys want, if we can't identify that, we're not going to waste our time trying to implement something that you dislike.

I wasn't aware how retarded people in this game can be sometimes, but thank you for pointing it out once again.

HUR DURR NOW BACK TO THE MATTER AT HAND

1) Massively broken, defending relics isn't the most difficult thing in the world, people just feel frustrated that they have to defend relics at the end of cycle versus someone who hasn't put in an equal amount of work. This is a solution to a non-existent problem.

2) Same thing, just accentuates the advantage of a player with a team number advantage. This isn't supposed to be a mini-Infernus or something, whilst RNG is bad (In terms of drops), getting rid of it entirely causes more problems that it solves.

3) Perhaps, but ironically this encourages more RNG. 2 players drop at the start of a cycle, whoever is closest to relics just by luck gets more command. Also means other changes like the revelation of neutral relics cannot be implemented in a "balanced" way.

4) See point 3. This isn't a mini-Infernus.

5) This is a suggestion I like, but also like I posted with my link, is hybridised so it's worth holding on at the end of a cycle, and it's worth dropping to take one at the end of a cycle. The game is already facing issues with rewarding the player with the most time, and getting rid of that "end-of-cycle" drop tactic is bad for the game, especially as the frustration it causes can be dealt with without taking it out entirely.

6) Eh, personally weaker I feel it is weaker than 5.

7) Point 3.

Pac
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Frageran
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calm down Wakka, that was rather uncalled for. Thank you for reminded how uncivil the community often is.
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xyzc2
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wakka wrote:
wannabe121 wrote:
Wakka wrote:
http://forum.mobrulestudios.com/viewtopic.php?t=15470

Jesus christ guys, if you want the council to do something how about providing some feedback.

QQ over.


I wasn't aware all deliberation was supposed to take place on a Council thread. But thank you for the link to the official ticket.

Back to the matter at-hand, we've got a few possible fixes thus far: which ones do we want to do further deliberations on?

1) 1/cycle "Teleport to Relic" Acti on the Relic upon capture.
2) Relics function as Dropship Pads.
3) Relics give an instant fixed payout to the first person who captures them.
4) Relics function as small Nodes with a building cap.
5) Relics payout per turn instead of at the end of the cycle.
6) Konu acts like Esika for the purposes of Relic payout (reset the timer on capture).
7) Relics function as Nodes with a fixed rate of building deployment.

As always, we can do a composite of suggestions. I'm simply curious which ones everyone would be comfortable with taking out of the initial running.


Forgive me but, you're a complete fucking idiot.

I never said THIS IS A COUNCIL THREAD YOU MUST DELIBERATE HERE. I said, if you want us to do something, how about actually checking the fucking forum and providing feedback to suggestions when they are made instead of ignoring them countless times (I've posted the need for relic changes BEFORE that thread also). Even if this was a non-council member, I'd tell you to do the same fucking thing. If this proved popular, it could have been coded weeks ago and implemented. Instead, we keep making individual threads that receive little feedback, and no general consensus on what to do. This is the PLAYER'S COUNCIL. We act based on what you guys want, if we can't identify that, we're not going to waste our time trying to implement something that you dislike.

I wasn't aware how retarded people in this game can be sometimes, but thank you for pointing it out once again.
....

1) Massively broken, defending relics isn't the most difficult thing in the world, people just feel frustrated that they have to defend relics at the end of cycle versus someone who hasn't put in an equal amount of work. This is a solution to a non-existent problem.


Pac


Hey it's also the council's job to scan over the forums and realize OH LOOK LOTS OF THREADS ABOUT THE SAME THING THIS MEANS LOTS OF SUPPORT RIGHT? HURRDURR

anyways.


Get this, unequal amount of work for the same price? That is a problem. And here we have a solution to an existent problem.

SEARCHING for a relic is a hell of a fucking lot harder than hunting for a goddamn thing that broadcasts where it is. Want to make it even? How about remove the broadcast. or give the option of having the relic broadcast (like take a 10% cmd penalty for not broadcasting).

Then at least the hunter puts in the same amount of work. Or it could be something like the relic says that it's captured and broadcasts that, but doesn't give the position. Didn't the old beacons do that?
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