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Tinywarz 3.Vanoi
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:19 am    Post subject: Tinywarz 3.Vanoi Reply with quote

This just my update log for updates too big to be conventionally thought or voted on by the Council.

6/5/2013 - Fire Rate + Complete
Each individual weapon will receive a new property called "FIRERATE" which is then inserted into the deployed_weapons table as "i_rate".

Fire Rate basicly allows for each weapon to fire multiple times depending on each individually stat (Balancing required, think of every weapon having the Fire Rate of 1 currently). Purpose for this is to allow some glancing damage and it also allows for more customization options instead of the 3 Damage Ammo and Range.

Weapon types will trigger as normal with the exception of weapon types that add effects (such as Paint and Web) and deal fixed damage (such as Bandit and Swarm).

6/10/2013 - To-hit Scaling + Complete
The idea for this is an overall reduction in To-Hit, Dodge and To-be-hit modifiers as well as balancing some off the later expansion To-hit/To-be-hit effects and bring them back to more in line of some of the earlier stuff.

Essentially, this would reduce the dramatic tilting of the to-hit scale during situations of Command Spam and Acti Spam.

Proposed - Stack Limit
This is to limit each stack to 10 units... randomly every unit after 10 will be positioned in an adjacent square nearest to where they started.

It also a set to allow for me to reduce army sizes all together to Default 40, Ability 50, TFC 60, SC 75. This allows for the 3 classes to have easier access into the others field without a dramatic difference and to reduce the overall min-maxing of army that we currently see.

The idea here is to reduce the overall amount of Death Balling we see and instead some more creative thought process of positioning support units and macro management.

Proposed - Dropship Units
Allow the deployment and undeployment via Dropships, each dropship will effect different attitributes (NOT BUFFS) such as deepview, army limit or retarget etc. This, like Fire Rate, will allow for more variety for deployments as well as situational benefits that aren't pure damage buffs.

These dropships are visible, can fire and can be fired upon. If destroy it will cancel their dropship (Evacs will be only be visible for 3 turns), they will of course have near HQ quality HP/Damage Reduction. Due to this once called Dropships/Evacs can't be cancelled in-order for people not to abuse the effects they give.

Current ideas:
Hermes Escape Dropshuttle: Decreases the amount of turns it takes to Call Dropship by 2 (5 Turns to 3 Turns, more or less a cheaper evac).

Overseer Dropship: Provides Deepview for 3 turns after dropping. (Both for initial drop and Call Dropship/Emergency Evac).

Colossus Combat Dropship: Heavily armored and moderately weaponed.
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Last edited by Vanoi on Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 am; edited 4 times in total
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asaace
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:21 am    Post subject: Sounds cool Reply with quote

That sounds pretty cool i support for the most part but stack limits is a bad idea, it basically opens up units to being mauled by stack attack. I'm not one for stacking, nor are most people, but it's just one little thing i bet would bring displeasure to those who do stack.

Also if you want to modify army limits we have to seriously nerf Ao1 and TFC as they would become much more powerful than SG
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ParalyzeD
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Tinywarz 3.Vanoi Reply with quote

I give my support to the firerate and to-hit suggestions, not entirely sure about the last one

a) firerate
Firerate would definitely add another dimension into the game though I can see it being redundant for energy units with recharge, and ammo might need rebalancing but it will definitely be a fun new aspect to look forward to.

b) tohit
TBH i dont totally understand the big fuss over the current to-hit system, though it might be a little confusing, it is reasonable at most times besides the fact that a couple of commands can make an unit totally unhittable, but again ; i wouldnt be against a revamp of the system for something simpler.

Quote:
Proposed - Stack Limit
This is to limit each stack to 10 units... randomly every unit after 10 will be positioned in an adjacent square nearest to where they started.


I especially like this idea. It would remove the tedious task unstacking but i am not totally sure if dropping the army limits across the board is a good idea.
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Last edited by ParalyzeD on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How I have Fire Rate currently written:

Weapon Loop {
To-Hit Modifiers
Fire Rate Loop {
To-Hit Roll
Weapon Mods (Single Trigger and Passive)
Damage
Kill Effect (Removal, Exp, Command, etc...)
}
Upkeep (Ammo Removal and Recharge Reset)
}

As you can see from the above Ammo Removal and Recharge are actually outside of the loop therefore you'll can fire 8 shots for 1 recharge or 1 ammo (I've actually changed the ammo to track fire count).
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wannabe121
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanoi wrote:
How I have Fire Rate currently written:

Weapon Loop {
To-Hit Modifiers
Fire Rate Loop {
To-Hit Roll
Weapon Mods (Single Trigger and Passive)
Damage
Kill Effect (Removal, Exp, Command, etc...)
}
Upkeep (Ammo Removal and Recharge Reset)
}

As you can see from the above Ammo Removal and Recharge are actually outside of the loop therefore you'll can fire 8 shots for 1 recharge or 1 ammo (I've actually changed the ammo to track fire count).


Certainly makes more sense to me than having gatling-style weapons deal large damage with low ammunition counts. By the same token, couldn't we go back to the days of where Trigun was 3 weapons instead of 1 to the same effect? It would make a much cleaner and simpler concept than the addition of a new variable. The only immediate reason I would see for the addition of a FireRate variable would be mods that change cyclic rates (i.e. Rapidfeed) or, in simplest terms, selector switches to force a weapon to fire fully automatic/burst/semi-automatic.

Regardless, I think it's an excellent idea. I'm not sure if it's the direction the game needs to go at the moment, but I'll refrain from any final judgement until beta testing.
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... Much better than nukes, that's too North Korean IMHO.
If these nukes are north korean, implement them anyway. They wont get 3 squares before tripping on a rock and turning into salvage.
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tri-gun never had 3 weapons... common misconception... otherwise people wouldn't have got the DeathDealer for DeathHogs...
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wannabe121
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except for right now? unit=20&type=mod shows Trigun as 3x 3/5/8.

Regardless, even if my example was incorrect, the question still remains: wouldn't it be simpler to just modify the existing loadouts/mods to show how many separate attacks they get per turn, instead of adding a new weapon variable? Unless that variable will be directly modified by mods, commands, abilities, etc. it's just another existential feature players will have to figure out.
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Dogg1000 wrote:
olla wrote:
... Much better than nukes, that's too North Korean IMHO.
If these nukes are north korean, implement them anyway. They wont get 3 squares before tripping on a rock and turning into salvage.
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wannabe121 wrote:
wouldn't it be simpler to just modify the existing loadouts/mods to show how many separate attacks they get per turn, instead of adding a new weapon variable? Unless that variable will be directly modified by mods, commands, abilities, etc. it's just another existential feature players will have to figure out.


What you're thinking in both instances are essentially the same. -.-

You have to create a new variable in-order for separate attacks/turn. I'm just taking it to the next step and imbedding it properly in the system.
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Walterohdim
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Wannabee it is easier to just list this feature as multiple attacks. I think you are fixing one of the few non broken things with Rate of Fire.

Quote:
Proposed - To-hit Scaling
The idea for this is an overall reduction in To-Hit, Dodge and To-be-hit modifiers as well as balancing some off the later expansion To-hit/To-be-hit effects and bring them back to more in line of some of the earlier stuff.

Essentially, this would reduce the dramatic tilting of the to-hit scale during situations of Command Spam and Acti Spam.


This though needs to be done somehow.




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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't to "fix" anything, it's just what I want to do with Tinywarz.
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tomohawk
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epic suggestions for the two proposals.

Kind of dumbs it down for J4 as well. Laughing
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ravneel
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really like the army balancing and fire rate suggestions. Go for it.
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yinuss
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: Tinywarz 3.Vanoi Reply with quote

Vanoi wrote:
Proposed - Stack Limit
This is to limit each stack to 10 units... randomly every unit after 10 will be positioned in an adjacent square nearest to where they started.

It also a set to allow for me to reduce army sizes all together to Default 40, Ability 50, TFC 60, SC 75. This allows for the 3 classes to have easier access into the others field without a dramatic difference and to reduce the overall min-maxing of army that we currently see.

The idea here is to reduce the overall amount of Death Balling we see and instead some more creative thought process of positioning support units and macro management.


I like these ideas. Support.
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually abandoned this work and deleted it, but if you people feel it's a good idea I'll recode it. Razz
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khaibar
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

do the dynamic planet thing.. frizz misunderstood it for a new planet that gets started by mods, I never cared enough to argue so I played along. When I felt like arguing, it was too late Razz

Instead of hard coding some variables ($planet_simple_only, $planet_pvp, $planet_bandits... etc...), make them pulled from sql in planet_inc and give mods an interface to modify them.

If added, opens the door for more events/variables that can be controlled by mods. (ie exp bonus, double spawn rate, shaks on konu etc...)


http://forum.mobrulestudios.com/viewtopic.php?t=15555
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