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Open Source: to-hit correction
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Walterohdim
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually it would make it harder to hit all the time, and harder to miss all the time. Under Borgrels plan you would get Average to hit a lot more often.

Walterohdim
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kunjuro
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this option opens up the avenue for the middle of the hit tree to occur more often (and for a more balanced 2hit calculations in general) then I support this proposal.
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Thunder_lt
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mabe we remove to hit at all and leave plain 50% hit or no lol this suggestion is BS and its returning to ancient times of TW.
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Larkable
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, this is the way it should be.

Set everything at a base of 50% and then work from there with bonuses. We could also make bonuses less effective at a certain point.

I also hate the way the game works with either 100% guaranteed or 0% impossible.

I hope this leads to a lot better to-hit calculation system.
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maXDooom
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thunder_lt wrote:
So you want to make things hit all the time? and miss just in few cases? thats really bad idea ...


that's my question, I WANT ANSWERS!!
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOW TO-HIT CURRENTLY WORKS:

To-hit is currently an 18 point scale.
0 would be a Guaranteed.
18 would be a Near Impossible (Impossible is no longer possible Razz).

Every 1 Gunnery Level is actually 3 points on the scale, with <1 representing either 1 or 2. (eg. >2 Gunnery could be 7 or 8 while <2 could be 4 or 5).

Elites start at 0 or 3 To-hit points (depending if Elite is Gunnery level 4 or Level 3... can't remember).

Missile suffers a 9 point for shooting below range but gains a 2 point (10 max) bonus for every square shot above range (Buildings too).

Energy suffers a 7 point plus 4 point (7 + 24 max) for every square shoot above range and gains no to-hit bonus for shooting in range (Buildings have a straight 9 point penalty).

Stacking provides a penalty equal 75% of the amount of units/buildings in the stack (15 max)

Moving shooter provides a 2 point penalty, moving above controlled speed provides a 3 point penalty for every square moved above controlled range including the inital 2 points (24 max).

A moving target provides a 2 point penalty for every 2 squares moved starting at 4. Moving at 8, 10 and 12 provided an additonal 1 point penalty. (12 max). The to-hit for moving is mutally-exlusive from dodge, the higher of the 2 values is taken. (eg. Covert has a dodge of 1 Gunnery (3 points) if you move at 6 speed you'll gain 4 points of to-hit penalty which will override the Dodge).

There there's mods and actis which are taken into effect, but remember every 1 Gunnery is actually 3 to-hit points.

With actis that provide 5 Gunnery Levels of To-hit/To-be-hit, which equals to 15 To-hit points obviously the scale would go crazy...

Like I proposed in my first post, we just need to decrease the amount of Gunnery provided by everything.
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Frageran
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still can't follow how to-hit actually works so I won't comment there...

But I'd love to see "gunnery levels" changed to actual percentages. When you see things like "<2 gunnery levels", I have no idea what that actually means...
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Larkable
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frageran wrote:
I still can't follow how to-hit actually works so I won't comment there...

But I'd love to see "gunnery levels" changed to actual percentages. When you see things like "<2 gunnery levels", I have no idea what that actually means...


I don't think that'd be too hard to do.

Since it's on a scale from 0-18, we could always just increase the scale from 0-100 and set the default at 50.

<2 gunnery levels would become 15% (I believe).

I can chat with Vanoi and see if he thinks that's a good idea or not.

It would really simplify the system.
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Problem with TW is everyone wants the stats... To-hit is one of the few things remaining where people aren't Min maxing... -.-
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borgrel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the info vanoi, for implementation my numbers will definitely need some adjustment but not much. what is rly needed though is an aye/nay from the council or frizz.

vanoi wrote:
To-hit is one of the few things remaining where people aren't Min maxing

ppl ARE min-maxing tohit.... the only values u see in combat is near impossible (thats min) and guaranteed (thats max)

larkable wrote:
Frageran wrote:
I still can't follow how to-hit actually works so I won't comment there...

But I'd love to see "gunnery levels" changed to actual percentages. When you see things like "<2 gunnery levels", I have no idea what that actually means...


I don't think that'd be too hard to do.


Not hard, but if u read this thread from the start, frizz wont accept that.

vanoi wrote:
With actis that provide 5 Gunnery Levels of To-hit/To-be-hit, which equals to 15 To-hit points obviously the scale would go crazy...


i have no idea what actis ur talking about, i said nothing about changing actis

as for 15 points being off the scale crazy: look at the current numbers
energy: 31 points (on an 18 point scale)
uncontrolled move: 24 points on an 18 point scale
missiles: 10 on an elite crew would be -10 to hit, 10 points outside of scale

i rly think ur missing the point/result of my suggestion vanoi.
should i replot the results with the 0-18 values to help u visualise it? would that help?
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanoi wrote:
Like I proposed in my first post, we just need to decrease the amount of Gunnery provided by everything.


I really think you missed the point of my post 'cause that whole post has absolutely nothing to do with your idea. Next time read it before you reply then you'd know why I'm talking about actis and if you'd bothered to learn the actis then you'd know why I brought them up.
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maXDooom
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

to-hit is too complicated D:
altho i think i know how it works now, but i think it should be reworked
not sure if the time is right tho...
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rafkory
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has the Withering Fire Bonus been cancelled? It should give additional 9 points after 20th attacker

(Withering Fire Bonus by: Frizz on Monday the 21st of March 2011 at 05:10pm) updates page 41

Raf
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rafkory wrote:
Has the Withering Fire Bonus been cancelled? It should give additional 9 points after 20th attacker

(Withering Fire Bonus by: Frizz on Monday the 21st of March 2011 at 05:10pm) updates page 41

Raf


Nope it's still there, I forgot about it.

Starting at 6 attackers, you gain 0.6 to-hit points for every extra attacker up to 21 unit for 9 to-hit max.
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borgrel
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Hit as per Vanoi's previous post

i realize that Vanoi stated to-hit between 0-18 and this is 0-19 yet as the image shows thats clearly impossible unless 1 gunnery lvl has 2 stages not 3.

Based on this assumption I plotted the current to hit system (simple addition and subtraction), heres an extract:


and heres the whole table, results plotted for values from (0,65) for negative and positive modifiers. Based on the fact that energy ALONE is 31 lvls (HALF of 65) i'm worried if i should not b plotting values up to 90-something


adding up how many squares are at each to-hit value leads to

as you can see the values add up nicely to 4225, which happens to be exactly 65*65.

This is an extract of the table plotted based on my proposed system



Which leads to this many of each to-hit lvl:


I hope you have been able to follow so far, because now it gets complicated......
Heres the 2 tables side by side and summed up purely by to-hit lvl:


And if the differences are still not clearly visible, ....heres some graphs:


As it stands now guaranteed counts for HALF of all possible results, forget about the likely results. And almost impossible another 25%. Together guaranteed and almost impossible count for a !!!WHOOPING!!! **76.36%** of ALL possible values.

I would also like to direct ur attention to the very nice 'bell curve-ish' shape of the proposed system. The 'lopsidedness' of the near impossible vs. guaranteed is not an error of this method: if u add up guaranteed and almost guaranteed the values are identical. pls note the difference in distance between average and guaranteed and average and near impossible.
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