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#45 - Cluster/Gyro Nerf ver. 3 (REJECTED-REOPENED)
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we truely just resort to doing +3 Range with no damage modifier and without Mistgt then it's truely just becomes an easy way for Ballistics to reach 10 range.

Also that would go against it's description of having an sentinent rogue AI and just completely throw away an already coded mechanic of this game.
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ChaosKiNg3
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My personal thought, one I think shared by most experienced players in game, is that MisTarget is simply not a mechanic we want to mess with. I don't even recall anything like it being suggested, just added as a new mechanic to justify new mods in a strux pack to sell.

I don't like keeping it at 3 range, I like my suggestion because it actually fits a logical structure but only DL seems to agree with it. Would rather compromise and find some sort of fix than leave it as broken as it is.

Bottom line, MisTarget won't bring "fun" to the game, relying on such an unaffectable chance sucks but if it gives you such a range advantage how can you ignore it? Combine that with it being so expensive and hard to build....just lame.

Ballistic Change:
Quote:
Balance Ammo: +3 Range, -2 Damage

Sup Ammo: +2 Range

Gyro Rounds: +1 Range, +2 Damage

Condensed Neutron Ammunition, +3 Damage, no Damage Reduction

Explosive Ammo: -1 Range, +5 Damage


Missile Change (needs work):
Quote:
Incursion: 2x 4 Range, 7 Damage

Triad: 3x 3 Range, 5 Damage

Armor Piercing Missiles: +2 Damage, No Damage Reduction

Cluster Missiles: +1 Range, +1 Damage (reduce build cost to take something like Smart and APM)
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CK3, Misstarget is a penalty for using Gyro and Cluster... it's not supposed to be fun.

GR 3 3 20%
CM 1 3 20%

Marksmanship decreases Mstgt rate by 10%.

Lower Build Cost.

(I've wavered alot on this arguement... *sigh*)
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ChaosKiNg3
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But we are dealing in a game that is nothing but chances and known factors. You will either make a mod that still delivers enough damage on target to be the best choice or one that misses making the next best 3 range mod (Balance Ammo) better.

One way or another there will still be an obviously superior choice which is not really a choice at all. We don't need two mods, two units, two of anything that is so directly comparable. By my chart each and every mod serves a very specific purpose and allows for a very flexible choice on range and damage trade offs.
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krisjaniz
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaosKiNg3 wrote:
But we are dealing in a game that is nothing but chances and known factors. You will either make a mod that still delivers enough damage on target to be the best choice or one that misses making the next best 3 range mod (Balance Ammo) better.

One way or another there will still be an obviously superior choice which is not really a choice at all. We don't need two mods, two units, two of anything that is so directly comparable. By my chart each and every mod serves a very specific purpose and allows for a very flexible choice on range and damage trade offs.


I would like to disagree. This thread is full of meaningless generalizations like "ballistic shouldn't be able to get to 10 range easily". This "we don't need two mods, two units" thing is the same. Your chart just balances them all out making them the "same" regardless of cost or complexity. Your chart is like making:
    Buckler +100% shields -25% regen
    Kite +75% shields -10% regen
    Hightower +50% shields
    Cerberus +25% shields +10% regen


It just doesn't make sense to balance these mods like that. And that's exactly what you are trying to do with the ballistic mods - giving the simple mod the higest range and least damage and then reducing range and upping damage on the higher end mods.

The original mistarget made gyro/cluster a tough choice in many scenarios. In some situations it was a really heavy price to pay for the range and damage.

Range is not a thing onto itself, it correlates with speed. One wild idea would be to leave Gyro +3 range, leave damage but add max speed -1. That would move it away from mistarget/miss but also provide a new disadvantage to consider when using it - and one that actually works.
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 3rd version has been accepted with 5 votes with 3 unvoted.

3 3 20% with MM reducing to 10%

1 3 20% with MM reducing to 10%

Reduction of some Prereqs.
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