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#45 - Cluster/Gyro Nerf ver. 3 (REJECTED-REOPENED)
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: #45 - Cluster/Gyro Nerf ver. 3 (REJECTED-REOPENED) Reply with quote

Missile reduced to 1 damage though keeping it's range
Gyro reduced to 1 range through keeping it's damage

Ballistics was never to designed to fight at high range and missile was never meant to deal high damage.

Break down of Gyro #1:
Gyro gives 3/2 with 35% Mstgt
-Explosive Ammunition -1/5 (Int)
-Balanced Ammunition 3/-3 (Sim)
Ends with 2 Range 2 Damage, thus it's still greater than it's TWO mods combines and still with lower CE.

Break down of Gyro #2
Gyro gives 3/2 with 35% Mstgt
-Explosive Ammunition -1/5 (Int)
-Superior Grade Ammunition 2/0 -25% Ammo(Int)x2
-Ballistic Ammunition 50% Ammo (Sim)
Ends with 3 Range 5 Damage, Gyro remains below FOUR mods.

Break down of Gyro #2
Gyro gives 3/2 with 35% Mstgt
-Balanced Ammunition 3/-3 (Sim)
-Rapidfeed Adaptor 0/3 -50% Ammo (Int)x2
-High Capacity Ammunition 100% Ammo (Int)
Ends with 3 Range 2 Damage, but with 1 Regen/Turn for Ammo so Gyro again is just slightly under 4 mods.

The same can be done with the Cluster Missile though with less combinations.

At the very least we could also reduce Mstgt by a bit or we can reduce the reduction to 2 damage for Missile and 2 range for Gyro..

Git: http://sourceforge.net/u/vanoi/dropshock/ci/ecb0ae6a2d682bc7dbfa3953d076ac6cebfc7191/

Ticket: https://sourceforge.net/p/dropshock/tickets/45/
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Last edited by Vanoi on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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Dark Leth
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather take an even bigger hit to damage on Gyro to keep the high range. I'm in favor of a pretty severe penalty to get the listics to a high range - but making it still a possibility.
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ChaosKiNg3
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Issue is high range Ballistics becomes a 1 size fits all answer. Missiles only real strength is the ability to achieve 10 range relatively easily. That has not been the case recently with the missile nerf but if ballistics can obtain 10 and move controlled missiles are almost flat out of luck.
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Dark Leth
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaosKiNg3 wrote:
Issue is high range Ballistics becomes a 1 size fits all answer. Missiles only real strength is the ability to achieve 10 range relatively easily. That has not been the case recently with the missile nerf but if ballistics can obtain 10 and move controlled missiles are almost flat out of luck.


Again, it should be prohibitive enough in terms of damage that it is a serious design choice to make.
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ChaosKiNg3
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't that the idea behind Balanced Ammo? If ballistics want 10 range I would hope they would need to use 2 mod slots. Missiles are currently in that boat for the most part which is horribly silly. Triad/Incursion are only usable with EE crews and on specific units.
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corclaork
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if gyro/cluster actually start mis targeting again they wont be a one size fits all answer CK... 1/3 of your fire is wasted and that's a huge trade off for the range. TBH i think just getting mis targeting working at the 35% with current stats would be ok.

cor
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

corclaork wrote:
if gyro/cluster actually start mis targeting again they wont be a one size fits all answer CK... 1/3 of your fire is wasted and that's a huge trade off for the range. TBH i think just getting mis targeting working at the 35% with current stats would be ok.

cor


They aren't wasted, they are still shooting the enemy...
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RoseThorn
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not necessarily: They can also shoot allies.

That, added with for example the Aegis ability to pull fire, or the Shield Gen. ability to pull fire, and you have a great possibility that most of the shots will "miss" the major threats you are trying to hit

~Rose
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Council really needs to consider this as these things as completely imbalanced... even more so of the fact that they don't seem to want to vote on the Miss-target fix.

Like my original post suggests... they are essentially multi-mods in one without the costs as well.
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Dark Leth
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanoi wrote:
The Council really needs to consider this as these things as completely imbalanced... even more so of the fact that they don't seem to want to vote on the Miss-target fix.

Like my original post suggests... they are essentially multi-mods in one without the costs as well.


I completely agree they're imbalanced. I'd rather see them able to hit factionmates/one's own units or have a bigger damage reduction or have a higher mistarget rate. Or a combination of 2/3.

I don't want to see the range hit.

I'm willing to vote 'yes' on the mistarget fix, whatever that is.
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ChaosKiNg3
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am afraid your own/faction mate units would make them 100% unused for very obvious reasons. I would rather see them balanced than ruined.
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Dark Leth
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaosKiNg3 wrote:
I am afraid your own/faction mate units would make them 100% unused for very obvious reasons. I would rather see them balanced than ruined.


Yeah, I remembered that I had thrown out that idea previously for very good reasons - right after I posted. My bad.

The other 2 still stand. There is a way to balance them with the existing range bonus. That's what I want.
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ChaosKiNg3
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about simply unerfing Balanced Ammo to +3 Range, -2 Damage like it was for years. The way for ballistics to get higher range has always cost damage rather than adding it. Sup Ammo should also have the -ammo removed, there is no point to it.
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Dark Leth
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaosKiNg3 wrote:
What about simply unerfing Balanced Ammo to +3 Range, -2 Damage like it was for years. The way for ballistics to get higher range has always cost damage rather than adding it. Sup Ammo should also have the -ammo removed, there is no point to it.


I'd be fine with that. Maybe that plus a CE drop (to 1.1, 1.05) for Balanced plus a further nerf to GR like Vanoi requested and you've got a compelling sacrifice in either direction to make.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So unerfing Balanced and Sup Ammo to their previous stats then turning Gyro Rounds into something like +2 Damage, +2 Range with a %miss chance or are you guys interested in sticking with miss target?
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