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Feedback Requested: Faction Level Overhaul
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Frizz
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:50 pm    Post subject: Feedback Requested: Faction Level Overhaul Reply with quote

Hi everyone -

Disclaimer: This post is for brainstorming on the proposed idea. This is not something which will definitely be added to the game. The purpose of this thread is to begin a conversation about whether or not this is a direction the community wants to take.

I'm really looking to all of you for feedback on this one. It's a pretty radical shift and I want to be sure everyone has a chance to be heard before anything is implemented. It's been suggested that all combat-related advantages from Faction Levels be completely scrapped and replaced with either Construx or advantages which have no direct impact on combat.

Here's what would be kept from the current system:

Combat:
Level 4. Simple Unit
Level 5. Crews cost one less Command to Recruit
Level 8. Intermediate Unit
Level 11. Command bonus per PVP vehicle kill
Level 12. Advanced Unit

Construction:
Level 4. Simple Building
Level 8. Intermediate Building
Level 11. Faction earns free Command (100 per day)
Level 12. Advanced Building [Show]

Research:
Level 3. One additional Build Slot and bonus to get Mods Slots
Level 4. Simple Mod [Show]
Level 5. All recruited crews start at level 2 (1 level of gunnery or piloting)
Level 8. Intermediate Mod
Level 10. One additional Build Slot and bonus to get Variants
Level 11. Crews receive an increased chance of earning merits and recruited crews start at level 3
Level 12. Advanced Mod

What would be added / changed?

Here are a few examples:
- Construction Levels which would decrease Build Time
- New Units / Buildings / Mods ... I can see a Battle Axe III coming out from this update
- Level costs would be re-scaled (maybe)

What are the significant issues?

I see two: First, a change like this would require significant support from the community. This is a massive shake-up and I want to be sure a majority of players are on-board with it.

Second is cost: This is not an expansion which would be sold, so there would be little in the way of recovering the cost of art (and my time) to get this implemented. If we were to move forward with this it would need to be funded by the player-based. That said, if this is something people want I'll research the cost of this expansion and propose it to all of you. If we can obtain the funding I'll proceed with adding it to the game.

Lastly, this would also be a chance for players to see their Units / Mods / Buildings from the Player Created Construx section added to the game. If this is something we move forward with I'll start a new thread where items for the expansion can be pitched and commented on by other players.

That's the idea, let me know what you think.

_f
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00don00
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well,I think it's safe to say that bonuses are the only things that keep us getting our asses kicked by bandits.So a nerf to those if you implement this would be much appreciated. Laughing

Other than that,this isn't a bad idea I guess.
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Frizz
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be pretty easy to tone-down the bandits ... Shak would also get a looking-at if this went through.

_f
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nicias
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like where this is going... though I would suggest that all missile and laser weapons get +1 range since that is now almost expected.

One thing that could be added is scaled command bonuses, have levels that give 50,100, 150 etc a day to faction, and maybe faction levels that allow a faction to drop to certain planets, then a faction can 'buy' access to faction planets, so for instance maybe all factions can drop to hadeas, zedus, and aldus but access to dominus and infernus have to be purchased for fps. (not sure how I feel about that but...).

Also maybe faction bonuses could give a cmd discount to drop bases to konu. All of these would reward factions for faction points without making it impossible for young factions to compete in pvp.
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thebest992
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicias wrote:
I like where this is going... though I would suggest that all missile and laser weapons get +1 range since that is now almost expected.

One thing that could be added is scaled command bonuses, have levels that give 50,100, 150 etc a day to faction, and maybe faction levels that allow a faction to drop to certain planets, then a faction can 'buy' access to faction planets, so for instance maybe all factions can drop to hadeas, zedus, and aldus but access to dominus and infernus have to be purchased for fps. (not sure how I feel about that but...).

Also maybe faction bonuses could give a cmd discount to drop bases to konu. All of these would reward factions for faction points without making it impossible for young factions to compete in pvp.



I suggest SOME get more range as well as i suggest damage reduction gets toned down a bit too
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snorok14
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so normal PvP bonuses would be gone? hard to tell how it would turn out... might be for the better, may be a disaster... im neutral Smile
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all for getting Player-Created Construx made.

But I'm not that excited about keeping the old Point A to Point B Faction system. The Current Faction System really lacks customization at most it only allows you to chose which one to go in first. I would like some choice along the way to stray onto, like instead of the Damage for Combat, maybe I can chose Speed instead.

Just saying.

PS. I would like to know the costs if you already have some numbers Razz
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Battalia
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicias wrote:
I like where this is going... though I would suggest that all missile and laser weapons get +1 range since that is now almost expected.

One thing that could be added is scaled command bonuses, have levels that give 50,100, 150 etc a day to faction, and maybe faction levels that allow a faction to drop to certain planets, then a faction can 'buy' access to faction planets, so for instance maybe all factions can drop to hadeas, zedus, and aldus but access to dominus and infernus have to be purchased for fps. (not sure how I feel about that but...).

Also maybe faction bonuses could give a cmd discount to drop bases to konu. All of these would reward factions for faction points without making it impossible for young factions to compete in pvp.


thebest992 wrote:
I suggest SOME get more range as well as i suggest damage reduction gets toned down a bit too


Guys, keep in mind that at one point in the game, we played without all these fancy bonuses, just because you are used to them, and rely on them, doesn't mean they are good things. If you follow that mentality, we might as well add all the damage and dodge ranks to every unit while we are at it.

Vanoi wrote:
I'm all for getting Player-Created Construx made.

But I'm not that excited about keeping the old Point A to Point B Faction system. The Current Faction System really lacks customization at most it only allows you to chose which one to go in first. I would like some choice along the way to stray onto, like instead of the Damage for Combat, maybe I can chose Speed instead.

Just saying.

PS. I would like to know the costs if you already have some numbers Razz


That would be actually pretty interesting. So you start at rank 0, and you could choose to buy a "faction level" for 500 FP, then you have 3 options, a new int combat meka, a new int meka with an exp boost, or a int vehicle that has a bonus chance to salvaging and mining. (All out of my ass for the sake of demonstration) then say you buy the combat meka, the tree moves forward to 2 o 3 new options, but you can never buy those other 2 units you passed up on ever again. This would allow factions to generalize their ranks or specialize them as they see fit according to the play styles they enjoy.

As for ideas, here is what comes to mind:

Combat tree would probably focus on new units and mods for the most part.

Research tree might include new tech exclusive to the research tree? I'll leave that up for discussion.

Builder tree... This one is tough. IDK, the builder tree doesn't seem to fit very well without the buffs anymore does it? Maybe change it to something else more focused on the super commander play style?

IDK, I'll do some more thinking and post later with any ideas
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Last edited by Battalia on Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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thebest992
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac needs to check who is logged on before he posts stuff on the forums
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Bidigam
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I support that combat efficiency advantages are removed. I think that is the right direction. Let factions form because they want to play together, not because they want the bonus.

Having said that the removal of the bonuses will create a void. Energy, missiles and ballistics were tweaked around those bonuses. Energy will be hit the hardest while ballistics will not suffer as much( they will lose quite some damage though). This would bring to the fore ballistics if nothing else is changed. Though it is hard to say whether missiles or ballistics will benefit the most.

Units will become easier to hit because we lose more dodge than we lose to hit.

I would say something about bandits, but that would be step two I guess.

What I like about all of this is that emphasis would be brought back to the vehicles themselves. Looking at a missile unit with 4 range and one with 5 will make a difference if one doesn't have EE. Same with energy.

I think that would reduce considerably the complexity of devising new setups. But in a good way I think. Considering the crew's abilities, vehicle characteristics and mods is plenty enough.
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RedLaw
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there was an addtion of different base units/mods/ect that a faction could add ect... (like at base just more additions the the faction pool) be nice. That one area is one that could have a unit, mod, or building every few months.


But other then that could there be smaller trees in each large tree. That way you can customize the faction a lot better.


There also needs to be a reason to keep gaining FPs other wise the game starts to get stale (something I am feeling right now myself).


But ya it does need some changes. I could try and compile a list and post it here.
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Frageran
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I'm kind of confused..........

I realize that all combat bonuses (well like 99% or whatevs) will be removed. But what are we gaining instead? Cheaper builds?

And yes if bonuses are removed, weapons will probably have to be looked at for balance again.
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sirstephen
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually i REALLY like vanoi's idea, though if it is implemented, there should be a way for factions to respec. I'd like to see the game without combat 6, as that defines what factions can even fight, even if it easy to get now. I remember when i first started playing and you couldn't get there for anything...

though i'd suggest, if you implement vanoi's idea that you don't make it a tree for each so much as each faction level has a few choices. Perhaps give up the +1 missile and energy for +1 listic only

so combat 1 (currently + 1/.5 gl to hit) could be damage reduction -1 to hit, OR controlled speed +2/1 OR +1/.5 gl to hit

and combat 2 (currently +1/0 missile, +2/1 ballistic, +3/2 energy) could be +2 missile damage OR +3 ballistic damage OR +4 energy damage OR could be what it currently is.

your second list of options isn't limited by your first choice.

If it WAS made into trees as opposed to just choices for each level, make each tree start new after the unique buildables, so you don't end up having to take an entire tree of garbage to get that one ability way at combat level 11 that breaks the game.


Last edited by sirstephen on Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Frageran
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirstephen wrote:
I'd like to see the game without combat 6


Yeah it would make people actually use mods. Without the bonuses people would have to get really creative with their setups.
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Nninty
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see this being worth the hassle/cost to be honest
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