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A MODest Proposal 2 (with voting!)
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Which one would you choose?
Option 1
25%
 25%  [ 11 ]
Option 2
74%
 74%  [ 32 ]
Total Votes : 43

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Frizz
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Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 3814

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:33 am    Post subject: A MODest Proposal 2 (with voting!) Reply with quote

Ok -

After thinking it over and looking at the replies there does appear to be a second alternative that gives the best of both worlds ... here are both options, please vote and add any opinions you may have below:

Option 1 (as stated in this post):
- Simple Units will have a Max Number of Mods Slots of 2
- Intermediate Units will have a Max Number of Mods Slots of 3
- Advanced Units will have a Max Number of Mods Slots of 4

Option 2:
- Simple Units can only use Simple Mods
- Intermediate Units can only use Simple and Intermediate Mods
- Advanced Units can use all mods
- There are no slot restrictions

All the "additional changes" listed in this post will still go into effect (lowered crew CE, lowered chance of crew dead, etc.). Regardless of which option is used.

_f
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Centorbot
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Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 523
Location: Cambridge, England

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wahoo, its just has to be option two its more fair all round.

Luke Cool
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Stormwind
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok option two does nothing to fix the power hog..... In fact it may even make the CE comparison's worse.

Imagine a 4 slow hog with 4 simple construx.

Backflash Recharger -2 shield regen +20 shields
Derringer Cannon 2 range 20 damage 2 ammunition
Balanced Ammunition +3 range -2 damage +4 ammunition
Ballistic Ammunition

This creates a hog with 24 shields 0 recharge
5 range at 20 damage with 16 ammunition

Another example

Scatterfire Gatlin Gun range 2 damage 6 ammunition 12
Wartech Gatlin Repeater range 4 damage 3 ammunition 25
Balanced Ammunition +3 range -2 damage +4 ammunition
Derringer Cannon 2 range 20 damage 2 ammunition

This creates a super hog with all simple techs, meaning a much lower CE drop cost. With commands this is the same variable as before an army of these hogs would do perhaps not as much damage, but still EASILY take out advanced units.

This thing has the capability of fireing from these range with damage:

5 range 4 damage 16 ammunition
7 range 1 damage 29 ammunition
5 range 18 damage 6 ammunition

With commands these damages go up alot..... This doesn't fix the problem by any means necessary.
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paladinlove
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Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormwind wrote:
Ok option two does nothing to fix the power hog..... In fact it may even make the CE comparison's worse.

Imagine a 4 slow hog with 4 simple construx.

Backflash Recharger -2 shield regen +20 shields
Derringer Cannon 2 range 20 damage 2 ammunition
Balanced Ammunition +3 range -2 damage +4 ammunition
Ballistic Ammunition

This creates a hog with 24 shields 0 recharge
5 range at 20 damage with 16 ammunition

Another example

Scatterfire Gatlin Gun range 2 damage 6 ammunition 12
Wartech Gatlin Repeater range 4 damage 3 ammunition 25
Balanced Ammunition +3 range -2 damage +4 ammunition
Derringer Cannon 2 range 20 damage 2 ammunition

This creates a super hog with all simple techs, meaning a much lower CE drop cost. With commands this is the same variable as before an army of these hogs would do perhaps not as much damage, but still EASILY take out advanced units.

This thing has the capability of fireing from these range with damage:

5 range 4 damage 16 ammunition
7 range 1 damage 29 ammunition
5 range 18 damage 6 ammunition

With commands these damages go up alot..... This doesn't fix the problem by any means necessary.


Actually Storm if you look at the Derrigan cannon info it does not get affect from otehr mods so balance ammo and ballistic ammo will not work with it

I Voted for option 2 since it will not affect the markets for all other simples that are already on the market and will not cause bugs from construction with 100 oversight on simple units and since unpaid players are already limited to simple mods it will not affect them which I think is best.
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stormfury
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An additional problem with mods are that a lot of the prereq mods are worthless other than for crafting advanced mods. This might make them worth having and get used. Hopefully this will help the market as well because people will buy more than just advanced mods.
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Stormwind
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh I didn't see the mod not being affected, but still switch out the balanced for something else, and you still have a power hog because of commands being issued on the unit. It'll still easily take out an advanced meka.
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Tessie
Intermediate


Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 156
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said in the other thread, I don't think alt. 2 will be very good for the game.. A big part of this game is figuring out good designs for your units, and I thing the game will suffer if you can only use 1/3 of all mods on simple units..

So of the two, I'm backing alt. 1.. Though it would be nice if you would consider my suggestion in the first thread, I think that could work as a good solution in-between these two alternatives..
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Centorbot
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its extreemly close, whens the cut of point for votes Frizz?

Luke Cool
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Stormwind
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok option 2 still doesn't fix the issue of deadly hogs you can still create a horde of them, even with simple mods that could take out advanced units.

Here is another proposal for option 1.

Allow non-paid people to use Intermediate/Advanced/Simple MODS ONLY they would still only be able to use simple vehicles, this way they can set up some nice hogs, while not being a power house, and still needed to upgrade to paid before doing things like faction and pvp.
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Centorbot
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Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 523
Location: Cambridge, England

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which one would you choose?
Option 1
45%
45% [ 5 ]
Option 2
54%
54% [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 11

WTF 45% + 54% isn't 100%...
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silvanoshea
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL
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Yojimbo
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Joined: 09 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about option C... both.

I think both ideas would be good. And with the CE adjusment mentioned earlier would really make the large simple units much more appealing.

As mentioned earlier, even with simple mods and 4 slots a GHOD (Ground Hog Of Doom) can still put out a lot of damage and have 20+ shields. Yes the range of the guns will suck but with a high move that is not such a big disadvantage.

Knock it down to only 2 simple mods and the GHOD is not really that scary except as a banzai bug splat on the window. The pit vipers and other big simple tanks now really come into their own on the battlefield. Ground-hogs will still make excellent scouts so they still will have a purpose.

Only thing that does concern me would be the CE limit on gaining experience. All these changes may see XP slow way down as ppl will need to deploy more CE to take out the bandits.

Yojimbo
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ars68
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

true, but think of it, if you have 30 unmodded hogs even, how long would even a single modded supernova stand if everything hit from crews? 30 unmodded hogs at what? 3 damage each? what do you have that can withstand 90 damage first turn, then how many can you destroy in 1 turn? 10? that's still 60 the next turn, 30 the 3rd turn. get my point? it doesn't matter WHAT mod changes you make, a single unit will ALWAYS have a disadvantage to huge numbers of enemy units. however, 1 on 1, ya, something needs changed if the hog can win. yea, both options will take care of it, but as you say, even if you do do option 1, you can still put on a derringer cannon then a deathlance, or something like that. in reality, it could be even MORE deadly then option 2 still, just by being able to still use advanced mods. ( Rolling Eyes besides, I'm against anything that makes un-paid people twice as weak as already weak as it is Rolling Eyes )

edit after seeing last post: ah, good point. I guess I could just go back to lashers. *sigh* but those were close to dying sometimes as it was. oh well, I suppose I can still manage.
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Yojimbo
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the balancing factor there is can you control 30 hogs in 60 seconds? That would be a bit much I think.

Another thing to pay attention to is the cost of adding crews is still there. Those elite/elite crews dont just grown on trees.

Another thing is that everyone is comparing X number of hogs to 1 advanced unit like the Supernova which is slow and only fires once every 3-4 rounds. I think the real hog killer is going to be something fast and that fires every round and has decent range. Stay at the edge of the hog horde and pick them off just outside of range 4. You will eventually wear them down. This stand and shoot tactic vs the horde is doomed to failure. Just watch Aliens Shocked

If the derringer cannon gets adjusted up to imtermediate level all this talk is moot anyhow. You could then take a battleaxe with a couple of mods and the hogs would never do any damage unless you used commands.

Yoj
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biggyman10777
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i say #2 because it will allow newbies to stay in the game but limit veterans and keep the game balanced
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