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A MODest Proposal
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Frizz
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 3814

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: A MODest Proposal Reply with quote

The following is proposed for Mod Slot changes for Simple / Intermediate / Advanced Units:

- Simple Units will have a Max Number of Mods Slots of 2
- Intermediate Units will have a Max Number of Mods Slots of 3
- Advanced Units will have a Max Number of Mods Slots of 4

- Units which are currently above the Max Number of Mod Slots for their type will be kicked down to the Maximum amount for their type (ie. a Simple with 4 slots will get 2 slots). Sorry, but grand-fathering old units would be a balance nightmare and would work against what the new system is trying to accomplish.

NOW WAIT, that change will also go hand-in-hand with these changes:

- The chance of crew death on unit destruction will be significantly decreased (cost for crew revival will be unchanged) ... AND a 2nd Tier of Survivalist _may_ be added, which will provide an even better chance of crew survival (still thinking about this one).

- ALL Advanced and Intermediate units at or above 500 CE will have their CEs reduced by 10%

- [UPDATE] LAST BUT NOT LEAST! Crew CE Modifiers will be halved (so instead of 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 ... it will be 1.05, 1.1, 1.15, 1.2) and the max modifier will be lowered from 1.6 to 1.3


The reasons for this change are as follows:

- To do away with the "super-hog" ie. a Simple unit that can leap tall buildings in a single bound, and kill advanced units with little to no threat to itself.

- Better scale the Deploy Cost to Killing Power ratio for Simple vs. Advanced units (that is - if you deploy with 100 Command of Advanced Units and I deploy with 100 Command of 4 Slot Simple units, I'm a major threat to you ... and I shouldn't be)

- To add more diversity to units currently employed in combat and provide more of an advantage to Intermediate and Advanced units.

- Encourage more heavy units on the battlefield (and fewer swarms of smaller units), while the decreased chance of crew death which should make it less of a hassle to risk more advanced units.

- Give Upper tier units more of a chance against lower tier units ... ie. give more of an advantage to Advanced units (and the players who pay the higher command cost to deploy these units) who are fighting against players who deploy Simple units (and the players who pay a lower command cost to deploy these units).


Currently I am _very_ sold on this idea ... however, I do want to open this change up to feedback. Please avoid comments that will get ignored, like "this sucks, don't do it" ... if you have an argument to make against this proposal, please leave a thought-out post below. If you support this change, please feel free to leave a message below as-well.

_f


Last edited by Frizz on Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Darky
Simple


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm, sounds good, i also think that the CE factor of crews should be ruduced, at the moment 1.6 for a merit crew is just too high,
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paladinlove
Simple


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:46 pm    Post subject: Good Idea Reply with quote

This sounds like a very good idea Frizz as it do away with super hogs being able to kill all but might I suggest something else instead of that since it will majorly affect the Economy in a large way.
Maybe instead of giving 2 mods to simple units u can limit to what kind of mods they can use.
Example: Under 300 CE for the unit are limited only to Simple Mods.
Units between 300-600 can use Simple/Intermidate.
Units above 600 CE can use all and any mods.
Instead of doing away with 4 slots this might be a good idea but the ball is in your court you decide but I follow you and get what your saying and I like it.
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Darky
Simple


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Idea Reply with quote

paladinlove wrote:
This sounds like a very good idea Frizz as it do away with super hogs being able to kill all but might I suggest something else instead of that since it will majorly affect the Economy in a large way.
Maybe instead of giving 2 mods to simple units u can limit to what kind of mods they can use.
Example: Under 300 CE for the unit are limited only to Simple Mods.
Units between 300-600 can use Simple/Intermidate.
Units above 600 CE can use all and any mods.
Instead of doing away with 4 slots this might be a good idea but the ball is in your court you decide but I follow you and get what your saying and I like it.


even with simply mods, u can still get a very powerful hog from with good shields, is still slightly unbalanced, i think reducing mods slots for simple units is good, or even increasing mods slots for advanced meka
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Stormwind
Simple


Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I LOVE this idea!

Here is a small alternative I was thinking.

Simple Units:

Max 3 (VERY VERY low chance of getting 3.) Creates a market, all current hogs would be reduced to 2 mods to save it from being flooded with 3 mod hogs.

Intermediate:

4 with a VERY VERY low chance of getting 5 mods)

Advanced:

4 with a slightly better chance at getting 5 mods, but still pretty low.

-----

Also, make each mod slot run a check verse your skills. Each mod slot, runs a check verse being able to handle Advanced, Intermediate, and simple.

Example.

I make a super novas, it rolls 4 mods. For each mod it rolls to see if it can hold advanced, intermediate and simple.

Each advanced slot decreases chances of getting another advanced slot, but it should still be possible to get 4 advanced slots on a supernova, just a low chance of doing so. (creates an expanded market for vehicles)

So on to the example:

I create a supernova, and roll 4 mod slot.

Slot one rolls to be Advanced (decreases the remaining 3 mod slots to be advanced.)


Slot two rolls intermediate

Slot 3 rolls simple (perhaps increase chances for intermediate/advanced slots a small bit?)

Slot 4 roll advanced.

so this units can hold 2 advanced mods, 1 intermediate and 1 simple.

There is my two cents, but overall I love the idea!
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Centorbot
Advanced


Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 523
Location: Cambridge, England

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like the idea. Ok so people do use hogs alot but this is because its a good way to train. You don't see many people taking out factions bases with hogs though do you? They can't be used for eveything. Ok so yea i deploy 5K CE of hogs and somone else deploys a Super Nova, yea its unfair on the Super Nova. So instead not make it:

Idea one.
Simple 4 Mods Max
Intermediate 5 Mods Max
Advances 6 Mods max.

Idea two.
Simple can only use Simple mods.
Intermediate can use Intermediate and Simple mods.
Advanced can use Advanced, Intermediate and Simple mods.

Idea three.
Don't change anything. Hehe (My favourite)

Idea four.
Decrease the deployment cost of Advanced and Intermediate mekas.

Because if i want to deploy and train i have to deploy an advanced meka this will make my exp very small. Where as if i deploy with a few small units i can get much better exp and faster.

Well thats just my thoughts anway. But i really have to give a huge thumbs down to this.

Luke Cool
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Yojimbo
Simple


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good.

And by far would be the simplest fix to the problem of everyone taking the cheapest unit possible and sticking the biggest guns on it. (A moped with a couple of howitzer cannons strapped to it)

But what will I do with these 30 ground-hogs once the change is made Razz

There may be a more eloquent ways to fix it but all those would require a major rewrite of the code. I say follow KISS and go for it.

Yoj
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worrok
Intermediate


Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 127
Location: Hell

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehe interesting proposol (sorry bout spelling) Frizz.... I dont realy mind having simples limited to 2 mods ect.... But i think even with the 10% decrease of ce will still make it too high of ce... As i see it a meka with 1000 ce gets decreased to 900 (erm i think thats right im not too good at math....) does not make a big differance (to me at least).... Soultions for that could be lowring crew and mod ce factors....
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Shrike
Simple


Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Frizz on this... I think it's a major step towards a more diverse and interesting game.
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glexana
Simple


Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure where I stand on the issue but I'll continue to play and I beleive it needs to be done.
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Centorbot
Advanced


Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 523
Location: Cambridge, England

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking if you do make it so they can only have 2 slots, who will use them? It will just be the same as it is but with advanced mekas. Everyone will deploy advanced mekas and not simple ones...

Luke Cool
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whistles384
Hopeless Romantic


Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 1019
Location: Somewhere between this realm and the next

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank god the super hog is going bye bye!!!!!! this will definitely add a new level of playing and this will be GREAT!!! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Tessie
Intermediate


Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 156
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this one.. I still think there should be some way to make advanced and intermediate mods more expensive or heavy than simple mods, in some way, but this might do the trick..

Anyway, I think it's a big step in the right direction Smile
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Frizz
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 3814

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, the "just buff the Intermediate / Advanced vehicles" argument doesn't work - it doesn't address the problem of super-4-mod-Simples that are way too cheap for their killing-power compared to Intermediate and Advanced units.

An Advanced with a maxed out crew and 4 good mods is 40-60 Command to drop. Tacking 2 more mods onto that is going to up its cost by 25-40 Command ... that doesn't fix anything Sad

_f
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Yellowsub
Simple


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 50
Location: greenacres WA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how about an extra CE cost for putting an advanced Mod into a Simple unit

so the cost more to deploy.

you would tak this on after the normal CE cost of the Mod
wouldn't that solve everything?

like
MOd + Unit= Ce cost Multiplyer
simple + simple=1.0 CE
Intermediate + simple = 1.25 CE
Advanced + simple = 1.75 CE
simple + Intermediate= 1.0 CE
Intermediate + Intermediate=1.0 CE
advanced + Intermediate= 1.25 CE
Simple + Advanced = 1.0 CE
Intermediate + Advanced = 1.0 CE
Advanced + advanced = 1.0 CE




But all this is only if we have to change it
i prefer the current system
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