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Suggest X-variants here
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Frizz
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Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 3814

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:46 am    Post subject: Suggest X-variants here Reply with quote

Please add your suggestions for X-variants here. Keep in-mind that X-variants are (currently) for un-popular and un-used vehicles only. An X-variant should decrease some stat of the vehicle and improve another stat. Keep in-mind, X-variants are rare, so they can (and should) give a significant boost to the unit.

_f
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Bolshack
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok i was gona send a mail about this but anywho :
Balista Problem
-Balistas used to be very popular in the old days.Oh it was so great to see Recent Kill List full of Balista kills.

By the roadrunner and the ht changes now its uselles to most players....I barely see 1-2 players using them.

They were used for PvP and Base Attacks.....Now they arent even used for PvP.

My Suggestion Is a Shield Boost Up Variant that would cut its range from 5 to 3 and would Boost up shields to 50 and make its speed 4

Grunt Suggestion
- I think there are few persons using Grunt's even with the new update

My suggestion is to cut its controlled speed to 0 and increase its Shields to 25

Kitfox suggestion

-Its + armor is really silly i think there should be a variant to change the armor to shields and shields to armor.

+ Cut down 1 weapon and add +2 dmg and 1 range to its current weapons.

Mammoth suggestion
I'm sure that many players use Mammoths to theyr army but only to armies that have ammo.

Why not make an variant that changes its ammo ressuply to -1 to -1 recharge to lassers and there cant be more then 1 of them with same variant in same square.

Or -10% of its shields and add +1 max speed.

Sentry suggestion
Lets try to make the Sentry more popular since excelsior and mallen are the only ones i ever seen using them for real.

Cut the bonus to hit to 1 and add +1 to range and +1 damage to its weapons.

Whirlwind...Same as Balista
Whirlwind was once the greatest pvp machine.

I say make a variant that cuts its speed to 4 and put 28 shields.

Thats kinda all i know some have been suggested b4 but it would be great to see some of them actually work
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Mallen
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Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 1128
Location: England

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm seeing as these x-variants being some major changes to the vehicle, although not enough to make it a different vehicles.

Like a mechanic thinking, "So what if we take off all these shields, and add a great big gun instead?"

I've always felt most units have their uses, but X-Variants could really expand the use of those nice vehicles that aren't used to much, and it will keep people guessing. Also, these variants will be expensive, so lets make them worthwhile Very Happy

Prowler:
"It's got a nice cannon, but i reckon we could add a few more"
-6 armour
Add: 2x 4 range 10 damage 4 ammo

Juggernaught:
"It's awfully slow, i bet i've got some Powerplants out back we could mess about with"
-5 shield
-10 armour
+4 Max Speed
+4 Controlled Speed

Tornado Meka:
"So what happens if we overcharge these energy cannons?"
-2 Max Speed
-2 Shield Recharge
+2 Range
+9 Damage
+2 Recharge
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Vanoi
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, first to state my opinions:

-I think X-Variant is like an experiement variant, it completely opposes the vehicles main function in order to find another use for it. Therefore, like the Katana Meka, melee becomes ranged, ranged becomes melee, and etc.

-X-Variant, well it's nice to finally beable to get these out on the field with "GOOD" use now, but they are still no match for the normal variants or specialisted vehicles :/

List of units most needed of a X-Variant:
-Witman
-Tornado
-Takagi
-Titan
-Paladin
-Gladiator
-Beast
-Brawler
-Pirata
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Excelsior
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Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I like the to-hit bonus on the Sentriy -- it's one of the main reasons why I use it (the other being the ability to keep its CE under 1000). The to-hit bonus is almost as good as Optimal Range on energy and missile weapons. I like to boost range with Superior Grade Ammunition, Eagle Eye and/or Combat Rank 6, then toss a Hydra on to make it speedier.

That way, I can quickly close with missile units and get inside their optimal range, or I can stay outside energy units' optimal range while still firing away. And with the range increases, I can usually dance outside the range of most weapons on bandit units with multiple weapon types ... and still pound them from a distance.

Not only that, but if I use Upload Terrain Data and switch to Controlled Speed, the Sentry's to-hit bonus and the Controlled Move's to-hit penalty cancel each other out; meaning that while I'm moving 7, I'm firing as accurately as if I was standing still in most other units. In the meantime, the bandits have to move under Max Move while trying to hit my fast-moving unit, so the bandits are suffering a theoretical 7 Gunnery levels of penalty (or more, if your commander has Quick Reflexes and/or Lightning Reflexes). I don't toss any shield or armor mods on a Sentry because, at least against non-Hellion bandits, it almost never gets hit. I just drag any bandits I find behind me (or herd them in front of me for missile units) and shoot lazily at them while I continue searching for more bandits.

So don't change the Sentry. I like the stats just the way they are. Good speed, good range, moderate offense, moderate defense, +2 Gunnery bonus for 550 CE, accepts Advanced mods without CE penalty, AND you only need to build 6 prerequisite Simple mods for it? I got a few modded DES Wolverines the other day, and it does twice as much damage as my modded regular Sentry (especially when I use Hotwire), but I'm swapping back to my Sentry starting today. For leveling an e/e commander against bandits while staying under 1000 CE, it's just hard to beat the Sentry.

As for X variants, the Kitfox is actually fairly decent as it is. It's basically an upgraded Juggler in almost every aspect except Controlled Speed. I actually used to use this quite a bit after I first gave up the Overload-modded Wolverines of old -- even found some bugs with some mod combos while using the Kitfox. Yeah, maybe increase range and Controlled Speed a bit, but there's not much you can sacrifice in the other areas.

The units with multiple weapon types don't see much use nowadays (unless you count the Lightfoot). If X variants can't make a large enough change to convert most or all weapons on such units into a single weapon type, maybe it can adjust the weapon ranges so that the weapons share the same range. The Pirata, for example: reduce the missile's range to 3, and increase the ballistics' range to 6, so that all weapons can hit 6 squares away without mods.

And why sacrifice one or two stats to boost another stat with an X variant? I can understand it, if the stat being boosted undergoes a large enough increase. But if these are going to be only marginal changes, then there shouldn't be a decrease in some other stat. An X variant is still a variant, and it takes up one of three valuable variant slots; shouldn't a variant unit be slightly better than a non-variant unit, rather than worrying about sacrificing one aspect of the unit to make another aspect better? If you want to increase a Grunt's Max Speed (and maybe Controlled Speed alongside it) by +2, then sacrificing some other stat might be fine. If you're increasing Max Speed and Controlled Speed by 1 each, that should be a small enough change for a variant slot that you don't need to weaken the Grunt in some other area.

Though maybe my idea of marginal boosts to a unit's aspect (that isn't covered by the regular variant types) without sacrificing other aspects could become the basis of a [T], or Tuned, variant. A Sentry gaining an even 2 Gunnery bonus instead of a <2 Gunnery bonus, for example. Maybe increasing the Mammoth's ammo reload by 1 or armor repair by 1 (but probably not both) as another example. Basically, increasing the range of 1-2 weapons by 1, increasing Controlled Move and/or Max Move by 1, or enhancing an existing bonus could all fall under the purview of a hypothetical Tuned variant.
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Bolshack
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fight my lf and we will see who wins
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Valkrieguy
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Joined: 16 May 2006
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Location: Konu, Sigma S Base (Konu, Destruction Highway)

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My problems with units:

Mammoth:

Problem: Too much like a building

Solution: -5% shields, +2 max speed

Tortoise:

Problem: Under-powered weapon with too much ammo (Ballistic)

Solution: +12 damage, -5 ammo

Leopard:

Problem: Ammo carriage hinders speed

Solution: Best weapon -3 ammo, +1 controlled speed and

Cobra:

Problem: secondary weapon too much like a scout's weapon

Solution: Primary weapon -2 damage, Secondary weapon +2 damage (Tradeoff)

That is all.
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Mallen
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Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 1128
Location: England

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Have to agree with Excel, the Sentry is fine how it is, although apparently it is only he and i that can see that Razz

I also agree that changes have to be very large in order to make X-variants worthwhile, firstly because it would require a large amount of resources to create just one, secondly because it needs to be worthwhile using the meka based on the X-Variant, i've tried to make my inputs fairly powered up, but if anything, they are likely to be underpowered.

Beast Meka:
"This energy cannon is really getting in the way."
Looses Energy Weapon
+4 range
+4 damage
+3 max speed

Sun Burst Meka:
"What is i just tweaked this powerplant like so?"
-5 Shields
Add: 2 Range 14 Damage 3 Recharge
+1 Max Speed

Witman Meka:
"Hey, who needs a little bit of everything? we can make something from this unique chasis"
Looses all weapons
+ Any friendly units in the same Sector as the X-Witman Meka, gains a good bonus to hit (<2 Gunnery Levels)
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Valkrieguy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the Witman Meka idea, it puts a good idea that freindlies should get bonuses, but y no weapons?
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Mallen
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically i went for a poorer version of the hawkeye, that way other players could use something similar, IF they wanted to spend all that resource making Witman Mekas

(which would likely mean people would desperately try to find some way of getting a witman to kill something, as there would be so damn many of them built, but that's half the fun of these X-Variants)
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B3bomber
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do X variant added stack with the 3 variant chances (as in make a total of 4) or replace one or all three variants?
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Excelsior
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolshack wrote:
fight my lf and we will see who wins


A fully-modded Sentry has half the CE of a fully-modded Lightfoot. I never intended to use it for PvP; like I said, I mostly use it for leveling my commander against bandits.

Though it turns out it's pretty good for PvP. I almost held my own against xebo's Hawkeye for several turns, during a fight over a relic on Konu. Considering I had less than half of xebo's levels, less than a twentieth of his PvP experience (if even that much), and no faction ranks to his 8 Combat ranks, the Sentry seems to do pretty well with hit-and-run tactics.
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Bolshack
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why not add such a boost up that make one vehicule almighty ?? you have to make them not unstopable but reasonable.

Ok i think i added a lil too much drawback to some units
Balista
-1 range +30 shields
Sentry
+1 range+5 dmg
Tornado
+1 range ,-1 recharge ,+8 shields
Brawler
+2 range ,+3 dmg, -5 shields
Titan
+5 dmg to all weapons, -1 recharge for energy weapons , +3 controlled speed
Witman
+2 dmg ,-20% ammo
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Valkrieguy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a few more I find unpopular:

Lasher:
-1 range, +10 damage, +1 recharge, unit is harder t-hit (-1 gunnery level)

Lobber:
Extra missile weapon w/ range: 2, damage: 6 and ammo: 12

Jaguar:
Unit is harder to-hit (-1 gunnery level), -1 range, +3 damage, extra energy weapon w/ range: 0, damage: 6, Recharge: 2

Panther:
2 Extra energy weapons both w/ range: 0, damage: 7, recharge: 2, unit has a bonus to-hit (+1 gunnery level)
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m100
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Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres a x-varients im thinking of
ground-hog light scout- removed missle wepon ballstic range 5 damage 4
cannot hit the same turn of moving if equiped with explasve ammouniton and balieced ammo it does 7 damage and balanced ammo dosn't add range.
( and I havent see people use covert mekas and the hemes meka is only used by marle regualry as far as I know.)


Last edited by m100 on Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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